An Interview with Sister Anna Hadija Ali on 9th September 1991
AA = Anna Ali
JM = (Reverend) Jude Mbukanma O.P.
Sr. Anna made her first religious profession in the Pious Union
of Jesus the Good Shepherd in the Chapel of Visitation Sisters of
Mother Claudio Russo on 7th September 1991 Rome. The Founder
of this Pious Union received the vows. Sr. Anna Ali is one of the first
sisters to be received into the Union.
On 9th September 1991, I - (Reverend) Jude Mbukanma O.P., had an interview with Sr. Anna on her
experiences with the Lord. What I have written here was all that
she could discuss with me. In talking to her I was guided by the
statement of the Bible:
she could discuss with me. In talking to her I was guided by the
statement of the Bible:
“It’s a good idea to keep a King’s secret, but what God does should
be told everywhere so that he may be praised and honoured” (Tobit
12:7).
JM: I would like to record some information about your life and
experiences.
AA: Perhaps this is the right time after my religious profession
as I am now a Sister. (Anna always called her religious
profession the “secret” or the “dream” of her life).
JM: When and where were you born and who were your parents?
AA: Date of Birth: 29th December 1966 Place: Kipkelion in
Kericho District Country: Kenya
JM: In Africa most parents give their children names at birth and
choose a saint’s name for such children at baptism. Is this
the case with you?
AA: Yes. I had my Muslim and then baptismal name. I was named
Hadija (I am known as Hadija at home); at baptism I took
Anna. Father’s Name: Ali Abdulrahmani Mother’s Name:
Priscah Nyambura
JM: How many brothers and sisters do you have?
AA: Two brothers – Emmanuel Abdul Ali [a Muslim now
converted to the Catholic faith] and Anthony Njoroge Amisi
[Catholic]; and two sisters – Caroline Asha and Mariamu
Wairimu [Catholic]. I am the first born.
JM: When were you baptised and when did you first receive Holy
Communion?
AA: I was baptised on 15th April 1979 at Kipkelion Catholic
Church and received First Holy Communion at the Easter
Vigil in 1979. I was baptised by Abbot Bernard Kaboggoza,
a Ugandan Trappist.
JM: What was your experience on that occasion?
AA: I felt inner joy and peace in a way I cannot explain.
JM: By whom and where were you confirmed?
AA: I was confirmed by Bishop Raphael Ndingi at Kipkelion
Parish. My confirmation name is Scholastica.
JM: What school did you attend and what qualifications did you
obtain?
AA: I attended Kipkelion Primary School and Koru Girls
Secondary School (run by the Sisters of Mercy). I studied
until Form 4 and obtained a Form 4 Certificate.
JM: What kind of work did you originally want to do?
AA: I wanted to be a catechist and pastoral worker in our parish.
JM: Did you ever think of becoming a religious sister?
AA: Yes, I had the urge to become a Reverend Sister. It was the
‘dream’ and ‘secret’ of my life. But I realised that I could not
be a Reverend Sister if I was ill. So I needed healing.
JM: When did you first think about God in your life?
AA: I was brought up as a Muslim child. My father was a devout
Muslim but he left my mother to practice her Catholic faith.
JM: When did you first come to know Jesus?
AA: After my first Holy Communion. I cannot describe my
feelings then.
JM: Had you any childhood experiences of Jesus?
AA: None.
JM: Is it true that you had visions of Hosts?
AA: Yes. I saw them on various occasions in our small bedroom
at Porta Angelica, Roma. I saw the Host in the air close to
the wall. This was in May 1987.
JM: How many times did you see them and what did you do when
you saw them?
AA: As I said before, I saw them on several occasions. Then I
reported the matter to my Father-Founder. It was suggested
that I take photographs. I did and when they were printed
they came out real. (The Kodak camera with which she took
the photographs of the Sacred Hosts was the very camera Sr.
Anna used to take the photograph of the Adorable Jesus).
JM: Was anyone present when the Hosts appeared? And at what
time did they appear?
AA: Sr. Regina Mwamba was there most of the times but I do not
know if she saw them. As for the time the Hosts appeared I
saw them during the day.
JM: Is it true that you saw Our Lord Jesus?
AA: Yes.
JM: Where and when?
AA: In the same apartment at Porta Angelica Rome. I saw Him in
early August 1987. He came around 2.30a.m. - 3.00 a.m. He
came another time (Corpus Christi Thursday 1988) in tears
of blood. (Sr. Anna Ali sheds tears of blood. This became
a regular phenomenon from the solemn feast of Corpus
Christi 1988.)
JM: How would you describe His Presence?
AA: He came with His own light. He was enveloped in light,
which was of the same hue of the sky when it is deeply blue.
His presence illuminated the whole room. He wore a red
tunic (the colour of blood) with wide sleeves. He has shining
dark hair.
JM: What did He say when you saw Him?
AA: He gave me a message and on His instruction I started
writing down the messages.
JM: Do you still remember the day He appeared and when you
first started writing down the messages?
AA: The first message was written on 8th September 1987. But
He came first early August 1987 and then on Corpus Christi
1988 (Sr. Anna Ali shed tears of blood. This became a regular
phenomenon since the solemn Feast of Corpus Christi 1988.
A comment on this phenomenon of tears of blood has been
made in this book- Divine Appeals) –the two occasions I took His picture. He
always came at night.
JM: What was His mood when He spoke to you?
AA: He talked to me in a pitiable tone and still does each time He
appears. He talks as if He is a beggar.
JM: You took pictures of Jesus. How did you come to do this
stupendous thing?
AA: When I reported to my Father-Founder that I was seeing
the Lord every night he asked me to do a sketch. I cannot
sketch. So I prayed and my Father-Founder got the idea that
I should use my camera. When Our Lord came again that
night I took my camera and took His picture. This was early
August 1987. He also appeared to me on Corpus Christi
1988. On this night He was weeping tears of blood. All
these appearances took place in the parlour of the apartment
(The Portrait of Jesus in tears of blood was one of the results
of the early attempts of Sr. Anna to take the photograph of
Jesus) at Porta Angelica and in my room in the apartment.
JM: Was anyone in the parlour with you?
AA: No one. Some of my fellow postulants were in California
doing a short course on evangelisation during the first
appearance in August 1987. Also there was no one there
the second time (Corpus Christi 1988) when I took His
photograph.
JM: At what time of the night did He appear?
AA: He came around 2.00 a.m. – 3.00 a.m.
JM: Does He still come and at what time?
AA: He comes between 2.00 a.m. – 3.30 a.m. (between midnight
of Wednesdays and early hours of Thursdays).
JM: Has He ever come during the day?
AA: No
JM: With whom does He come?
AA: He comes alone.
JM: In appearance does Jesus look like any other human being?
AA: He is a human being but He is different. You look miserable
before His holiness. When I saw a Jewish person one day it
reminded me of Him. He is of average height. You cannot
describe Him. In His presence you cannot speak – you are
lost.
JM: When Jesus comes to you does He appear sad, gentle,
serious, happy?
AA: When He is giving a message His voice is pitiable; so He is
sad but it is a sadness of love. On one occasion He came in
tears of blood.
JM: Why was He weeping?
AA: He was in great pain because of the way those to whom He
entrusted souls are treating Him. Some of them abuse Him
in the Holy Eucharist and want to destroy Him there. They
want to abolish the sacrifice of the Holy Mass. He is also
unhappy about the spiritual life of souls consecrated to Him
and those whose salvation is in danger and also for many
souls for whom His blood is in vain.
JM: When you first saw Jesus how did you feel?
AA: I cannot explain. It was if I was in a slumber.
JM: Were you full of fear or joy after Jesus had left you?
AA: I kept on thinking about Him. I was not sad or joyful. I was
thinking.
JM: Does Jesus still come to you and which days does He come?
AA: He still comes. He comes on Thursdays at night.
JM: What does He say each time?
AA: He often asks me to pray for those to whom He has entrusted
souls (priests). When I go into prayer I use many prayers but
I cannot remember them when I am not yet in prayer.
JM: How long does Jesus stay with you when He comes?
AA: I cannot tell. When He comes I get caught up by His Holiness
and when He leaves it takes me time to come back to myself.
I cannot explain further.
JM: Thank you for sparing the time.
AA: Thank you Father
Priscah Nyambura
JM: How many brothers and sisters do you have?
AA: Two brothers – Emmanuel Abdul Ali [a Muslim now
converted to the Catholic faith] and Anthony Njoroge Amisi
[Catholic]; and two sisters – Caroline Asha and Mariamu
Wairimu [Catholic]. I am the first born.
JM: When were you baptised and when did you first receive Holy
Communion?
AA: I was baptised on 15th April 1979 at Kipkelion Catholic
Church and received First Holy Communion at the Easter
Vigil in 1979. I was baptised by Abbot Bernard Kaboggoza,
a Ugandan Trappist.
JM: What was your experience on that occasion?
AA: I felt inner joy and peace in a way I cannot explain.
JM: By whom and where were you confirmed?
AA: I was confirmed by Bishop Raphael Ndingi at Kipkelion
Parish. My confirmation name is Scholastica.
JM: What school did you attend and what qualifications did you
obtain?
AA: I attended Kipkelion Primary School and Koru Girls
Secondary School (run by the Sisters of Mercy). I studied
until Form 4 and obtained a Form 4 Certificate.
JM: What kind of work did you originally want to do?
AA: I wanted to be a catechist and pastoral worker in our parish.
JM: Did you ever think of becoming a religious sister?
AA: Yes, I had the urge to become a Reverend Sister. It was the
‘dream’ and ‘secret’ of my life. But I realised that I could not
be a Reverend Sister if I was ill. So I needed healing.
JM: When did you first think about God in your life?
AA: I was brought up as a Muslim child. My father was a devout
Muslim but he left my mother to practice her Catholic faith.
JM: When did you first come to know Jesus?
AA: After my first Holy Communion. I cannot describe my
feelings then.
JM: Had you any childhood experiences of Jesus?
AA: None.
JM: Is it true that you had visions of Hosts?
AA: Yes. I saw them on various occasions in our small bedroom
at Porta Angelica, Roma. I saw the Host in the air close to
the wall. This was in May 1987.
JM: How many times did you see them and what did you do when
you saw them?
AA: As I said before, I saw them on several occasions. Then I
reported the matter to my Father-Founder. It was suggested
that I take photographs. I did and when they were printed
they came out real. (The Kodak camera with which she took
the photographs of the Sacred Hosts was the very camera Sr.
Anna used to take the photograph of the Adorable Jesus).
JM: Was anyone present when the Hosts appeared? And at what
time did they appear?
AA: Sr. Regina Mwamba was there most of the times but I do not
know if she saw them. As for the time the Hosts appeared I
saw them during the day.
JM: Is it true that you saw Our Lord Jesus?
AA: Yes.
JM: Where and when?
AA: In the same apartment at Porta Angelica Rome. I saw Him in
early August 1987. He came around 2.30a.m. - 3.00 a.m. He
came another time (Corpus Christi Thursday 1988) in tears
of blood. (Sr. Anna Ali sheds tears of blood. This became
a regular phenomenon from the solemn feast of Corpus
Christi 1988.)
JM: How would you describe His Presence?
AA: He came with His own light. He was enveloped in light,
which was of the same hue of the sky when it is deeply blue.
His presence illuminated the whole room. He wore a red
tunic (the colour of blood) with wide sleeves. He has shining
dark hair.
JM: What did He say when you saw Him?
AA: He gave me a message and on His instruction I started
writing down the messages.
JM: Do you still remember the day He appeared and when you
first started writing down the messages?
AA: The first message was written on 8th September 1987. But
He came first early August 1987 and then on Corpus Christi
1988 (Sr. Anna Ali shed tears of blood. This became a regular
phenomenon since the solemn Feast of Corpus Christi 1988.
A comment on this phenomenon of tears of blood has been
made in this book- Divine Appeals) –the two occasions I took His picture. He
always came at night.
JM: What was His mood when He spoke to you?
AA: He talked to me in a pitiable tone and still does each time He
appears. He talks as if He is a beggar.
JM: You took pictures of Jesus. How did you come to do this
stupendous thing?
AA: When I reported to my Father-Founder that I was seeing
the Lord every night he asked me to do a sketch. I cannot
sketch. So I prayed and my Father-Founder got the idea that
I should use my camera. When Our Lord came again that
night I took my camera and took His picture. This was early
August 1987. He also appeared to me on Corpus Christi
1988. On this night He was weeping tears of blood. All
these appearances took place in the parlour of the apartment
(The Portrait of Jesus in tears of blood was one of the results
of the early attempts of Sr. Anna to take the photograph of
Jesus) at Porta Angelica and in my room in the apartment.
JM: Was anyone in the parlour with you?
AA: No one. Some of my fellow postulants were in California
doing a short course on evangelisation during the first
appearance in August 1987. Also there was no one there
the second time (Corpus Christi 1988) when I took His
photograph.
JM: At what time of the night did He appear?
AA: He came around 2.00 a.m. – 3.00 a.m.
JM: Does He still come and at what time?
AA: He comes between 2.00 a.m. – 3.30 a.m. (between midnight
of Wednesdays and early hours of Thursdays).
JM: Has He ever come during the day?
AA: No
JM: With whom does He come?
AA: He comes alone.
JM: In appearance does Jesus look like any other human being?
AA: He is a human being but He is different. You look miserable
before His holiness. When I saw a Jewish person one day it
reminded me of Him. He is of average height. You cannot
describe Him. In His presence you cannot speak – you are
lost.
JM: When Jesus comes to you does He appear sad, gentle,
serious, happy?
AA: When He is giving a message His voice is pitiable; so He is
sad but it is a sadness of love. On one occasion He came in
tears of blood.
JM: Why was He weeping?
AA: He was in great pain because of the way those to whom He
entrusted souls are treating Him. Some of them abuse Him
in the Holy Eucharist and want to destroy Him there. They
want to abolish the sacrifice of the Holy Mass. He is also
unhappy about the spiritual life of souls consecrated to Him
and those whose salvation is in danger and also for many
souls for whom His blood is in vain.
JM: When you first saw Jesus how did you feel?
AA: I cannot explain. It was if I was in a slumber.
JM: Were you full of fear or joy after Jesus had left you?
AA: I kept on thinking about Him. I was not sad or joyful. I was
thinking.
JM: Does Jesus still come to you and which days does He come?
AA: He still comes. He comes on Thursdays at night.
JM: What does He say each time?
AA: He often asks me to pray for those to whom He has entrusted
souls (priests). When I go into prayer I use many prayers but
I cannot remember them when I am not yet in prayer.
JM: How long does Jesus stay with you when He comes?
AA: I cannot tell. When He comes I get caught up by His Holiness
and when He leaves it takes me time to come back to myself.
I cannot explain further.
JM: Thank you for sparing the time.
AA: Thank you Father
According to Sr. Anna, in view of our Lord’s apparition in tears of
blood on the feast of Corpus Christi 1988 and subsequent apparitions
on Thursdays, the feast of Corpus Christi and Holy Thursday
(the Institute of the Priesthood and Holy Eucharist) have become
significant in her life. She hopes her young Congregation will adopt
these feasts as significant in the Congregation.
Jude O. Mbukanna O.P.
London
15th January 1992
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